David Zetland, Aguanomist, yesterday posted a great exchange between himself and environmentalist/water advocate Dorothy Green that provides a perfect illustration of the frequent disjoint between economics and environmentalism, and the struggle economists face in convincing others that correct market outcomes indeed can benefit society and the environment.
Bottom Line (borrowed that from Aguanomics): Environmentalists love economists until the economists start pointing out the environmentalists' bad economics.
Read on for the e-mail exchange.
From: Carolee Krieger
Date: Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 9:35 AM
To: Lloyd Carter
Cc: David Zetland, Dorothy Green, Joan Hartmann
Lloyd, here are two letters that we might use...
I am also cc'ing this to Dr. David Zetland (Agricultural and Resource Economics) visiting professor from UC Davis...his specialty is pricing...thought he would like these.
Carolee
From: Dorothy Green
Date: Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 9:59 AM
To: Carolee Krieger
Cc: Lloyd Carter, David Zetland, Joan Hartmann
I think we need to get to know more about this gentleman, and perhaps encourage him to get even more involved. How can we do this? What would such a process look like?
Dorothy
From: David Zetland
Date: Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 10:28 AM
To: Dorothy Green
Cc: Carolee Krieger, Lloyd Carter, Joan Hartmann
Hi Everyone,
Let me jump right in and get involved :)
I just finished a PhD diss on MWD of SoCal, am running a blog on "aguanomics" and will be doing political economy of natural resources at UC Berkeley in the fall. I am not, btw, a professor. I graduated from UC Davis and I am a postdoc at Berkeley
I am VERY interested in reconciling ag, enviro and urban interests via markets, which use prices instead of lawsuits.
I suggest that you browse my blog (esp. sticky posts on the right) to get an idea of how I think and what I've been saying...
Best,
David
ps/I *may* have a piece coming out in Forbes on urban water pricing (raise prices to get conservation) in the next few weeks. My next ideas are for ag/enviro/urban markets and private/public/community water supplies...
From: Dorothy Green
Date: Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 11:04 AM
To: Carolee Krieger
Cc: Lloyd Carter, David Zetland, Joan Hartmann
So David Zetland is into privatization! He doesn't seem to understand that water belongs to all of us, and that a water right is not an ownership right, but usufructuary.
Dorothy
From: David Zetland
Date: Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 11:29 AM
To: Dorothy Green
Cc: Carolee Krieger, Lloyd Carter, Joan Hartmann
Ahh Dorothy,
You are precisely wrong -- see this and this.
David
From: Dorothy Green
Date: Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 1:27 PM
To: David Zetland
Cc: Carolee Krieger, Lloyd Carter, Joan Hartmann
Dear David,
Using market forces, transfers, means to me privatizing it. According to the public trust doctrine, water belongs to everyone and it is the duty of the state to allocate it to benefit the public. The giant agribusiness interests in the San Joaquin Valley have been working hard for many years to blur the ownership rights in order to market their water to the cities, at enormous profit. It is easier and more profitable to market their water than to grow crops. Water has belonged to us all. Historically we have not paid for water, but for the facilities, O & M, needed to get it to us. Big Ag wants to change all the rules and have persuaded some, even in the environmental community, that transfers and market forces should rule.
Dorothy
From: David Zetland
Date: Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 1:37 PM
To: Dorothy Green
Dear Dorothy,
That's an interesting definition of "private". So, if you are unwilling to use such "private" forces, then I wish you all good luck.
David
From: Carolee Krieger
Date: Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 2:51 PM
To: Dorothy Green, David Zetland
Cc: Lloyd Carter, Joan Hartmann
David, I completely agree with Dorothy. Privatization has always made matters worse not better for the people and the environment.
Carolee
From: David Zetland
Date: Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 1:18 PM
To: Carolee Krieger
Cc: Dorothy Green, Lloyd Carter, Joan Hartmann
Hi everyone,
You may be interested in this reaction to your agenda
David
